PowderHeads: Season 2 Episode 3


In this episode, Carpenter Technology’s, Strategic Business Developers, Gaurav Lalwani and Brent Marini, sit down with Ryan Kircher, Senior Additive Manufacturing Engineer at RMS Company. Ryan's AM path began with a simple desire to move back to Colorado. From there, his focus on improving patient outcomes grew. 

You can read the transcript or listen to the full episode below. 



Full Transcript

INTRO (00:08):

Hi everyone, and welcome back to PowderHeads, a Carpenter Additive podcast. With each episode of PowderHeads, we bring you the minds of industry experts and delve into topics that are defining how additive manufacturing is making an impact on our world today. Carpenter Technology’s, Strategic Business Developers, Gaurav Lalwani and Brent Marini. Sit down with Ryan Kircher, Senior Additive Manufacturing Engineer at RMS Company. Ryan's AM path began with a simple desire to move back to Colorado. From there, his focus on improving patient outcomes grew. Thanks for listening and enjoy the conversation.

Gaurav Lalwani (00:47):

Good morning, good evening. Good afternoon, listeners. Uh, today we have Ryan Kircher on, on our podcast. Ryan is a senior additive manufacturing engineer at RMS Additive. Uh, he has a lot of experience, uh, in the additive industry. He has his own consulting company, Kher Consulting. Uh, formerly before rms, he was, uh, the director for Additive Industries, and he was also the director of, uh, customer Innovation Center for 3D Systems here. Ryan, how are you doing?

Ryan Kircher (01:23):

Good, good. How are You?

Gaurav Lalwani (01:24):

Good, good. And on the line, we also have Brent Marini. Uh, Brent is, uh, the Director of Medical Markets at Carpent Technology Corporation. Okay, Brent, how are you? I'm

Brent Marini (01:35):

Doing well, Gar. Uh, nice to talk to you again, Ryan. Looking forward to the discussion.

Gaurav Lalwani (01:40):

All right, Ryan. So, uh, you know, I've always been curious about, uh, you know, uh, I've always been curious to understand what was the motivation, um, for someone to choose 3D printing or active manufacturing as a career option? And I see, you know, you've been in the industry for, for more than a decade now. Uh, so how, what was your motivation when you started off, uh, as you know, as, as, as a career option for in additive?

Ryan Kircher (02:14):

Yeah, it's a, it's an interesting question. Um, I've been in industry for, um, I believe it's, um, close to 17 or 18 years now. Um, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, back then, um, believe it or not, my motivation for getting into the additive manufacturing space, uh, was to move back to Colorado. Um, <laugh>, I was working as a metallurgist in an automotive plant, um, in Michigan. And a good friend of mine was working for a company called Medical Modeling, which is one of the first, um, companies to really try to use additive manufacturing for making, um, medical devices, anatomical models and those types of things. Um, and before he joined that company, I'll admit, I had no idea what additive manufacturing was. Um, I mean, there was no mention of 3D printing or additive manufacturing, um, in my coursework or anything at college. You know, you gotta think that was, you know, 20 some years ago.

Ryan Kircher (03:11):

It was such a small, uh, small thing back then that, um, you know, most people going to school and stuff really had, um, no idea what it was, with the exception of a couple, um, universities that were some of the forefathers in additive manufacturing. So, um, I was working as in a field mill, um, sorry, an auto, auto automotive manufacturing plant. And my coworker, my good friend from college, um, kept trying to convince me to move back to Colorado. Um, cause I, you know, that's where I was born and I really liked Love Colorado. And, um, I wasn't, at that point, they were mostly just printing polymers, um, you know, with SLA and stuff like that, and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he gave me a call one day and he is like, Hey, we bought this printer that that can make titanium. And I was like, yeah, right.

Ryan Kircher (03:55):

Seems like a type dream. Um, and he actually shipped me just a chunk of, of, um, print titanium that was made on a, um, an R cam, um, S 12, which was their first model of an electron B melting printer. Um, and I stayed late one day and cut it open and took a look at the microstructure and all that kind of stuff in the lab at the mm-hmm. <affirmative> automotive plant. And was surprised that it, you know, it looked like actual material. And, um, went back and interviewed at Thanksgiving, and by Christmas I was working at medical modeling, um, working on one of their first, um, electron bean melting systems.

Gaurav Lalwani (04:34):

Nice, nice. So that was the motivation was to basically come back home <laugh>? Well,

Ryan Kircher (04:43):

Yeah, I mean, I mean, at that point I knew really nothing about additive manufacturing, to be honest with you. Um, it seemed really, it seemed really interesting and the stuff that medical modeling was doing was, you know, um, amazing. You know, they were changing people's lives by, you know, trying to figure out how to, um, you know, use additive manufacturing to, to improve surgery outcomes and, and stuff like that. I mean, at the point that time I, there weren't any metal additive manufacture devices on the market or anything like that, so, yeah. Um, you know, we spent the first several years, um, that I was there just trying to understand what we could and couldn't make, and how to actually try to, um, convince customers, you know, medical devices, manufacturers and the FDA and everybody that, you know, this was an actual viable way of making implantable products, right? Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Lalwani (05:34):

<affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, you know, I've, uh, it's, it's, it's astounding and, uh, it's, it's extremely cur curious to me that, you know, uh, back in the day when the entire field was essentially, you know, getting started, right? Uh, there was no regulation, no guidance, uh, from any of the regulatory bodies. Uh, of course we have the fda, but there was very little known about 3D printing industrial in general for them to even advise on what should and shouldn't be done. Right. So now, how long of a journey was it for you, uh, with the, with the company to actually really understand the entire material system, understand what you can actually achieve with it, and then more importantly, you know, navigate the uncertainty of, of an, of a regulatory landscape, which is, uh, really not, not well defined? How is that?

Ryan Kircher (06:36):

I mean, <laugh>, if I'm, if I'm blatantly honest, I'll, I'll let you know when it's, when it's done. Um, it's, it's, it's always changing and evolving, right? We, I still, um, it's still something that, um, you know, as an industry we're working towards right now. Um, you know, standardization is still, in my opinion, in its infancy. Um, you know, the fda, um, has made a lot of strides over the last 17 or 18 years, but, um, you know, they, they published a, a guidance document, probably it's been probably seven or eight years at least, that that's been out. And, you know, they, they've changed their requirements from people using additive manufacturing from medical devices over the years too. So it's constantly changing and evolving. But, um, I think the answer you're kind of looking for was, you know, by the time that I sat down and kind of put together a plan of what we were gonna do, and we found that those first couple customers that were willing to go on that journey with us, it probably took us about three years, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> before we had clearance from the fda, um, you know, to actually, uh, manufacture and, um, you know, sell implantable titanium medical devices. It was about three years.

Gaurav Lalwani (07:46):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a good amount of investment, uh, that has to happen, uh, especially with respect to, you know, time timelines, right?

Ryan Kircher (08:00):

Uh, yeah. I mean, and I was really lucky to have, um, you know, um, a president of, of the company that was willing to invest the time and money it took to do a lot of testing and make some mistakes and, you know, learn about the process. Um, it was definitely, um, you know, it took a lot of, a lot of resources to kind of get to that point for the first time. Right. Yeah.

Gaurav Lalwani (08:21):

And now, what was the, what was that, what was the first implant that, that you worked on? Do you remember?

Ryan Kircher (08:28):

Um, well, there's two companies and they argue about who got their clearance first. Cause I think it literally happened within weeks of each other. Um, one was an, a tabular cup, like a standard, well, not a standard, what I would call like a, um, like a premium tabular cup, just an off the shelf tabular cup. But, you know, um, it had a lattice porous structure, um, on the outside of it. Um, that was one of the first products. And then, um, the other was, was a, um, a spinal implant, right? Like a, a spine fusion cage

Gaurav Lalwani (08:57):

Cage. Okay.

Ryan Kircher (08:59):

Yeah. So both of those happened about the same time, and those were, you know, both kind of the shoe and applications at the time too. Right,

Gaurav Lalwani (09:05):

Right, right. Yeah. So that's what I mean, if I go back and look at, you know, uh, all the implants that are 3D printed now in the industry, uh, for clinical use, majority of them are, are spine based implants. Right. I mean, there are definitely, you know, a few orthopedic implants as you mentioned, you know, Anas cup, uh, maybe some plates, uh, but majority of them are spinal implants. Uh, where do you see, I mean, what was the reasoning behind that shift in transition? Because it started off with orthopedics, right? Uh, joints, and then it went towards spine. So what was the change in that landscape and what's, what's hot in the field at the moment? Where, where is, where do you see the field going?

Ryan Kircher (09:53):

Yeah, so it's a, it's interesting, right? So the, the main reason that it things started off with like joints and really just kind of a tabular cups and stuff is because that's a really easy application and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you look at like why people are using titanium for, for like a, a tabular hip cup. It's mostly because, um, it's biocompatible and it has some sort of, lot of support structure. The actual, like mechanical properties of that material aren't very important for that application. There's, um, you know, you can go look on the internet, there's revision hips that have 15 or 20 counter sun holes, um, in the part so that the surgeon can choose which, um, which hold screw in during surgery. So, you know, those are just giant stress rises or giant, you can almost think of them as like defects in the part that just stay in there.

Ryan Kircher (10:43):

So, you know, nope, I've never seen an a tabular cup crack in half. So it was a really easy low risk application for people to get into the industry with, um, where spine, you know, those things are under compression. It's definitely, um, a, you know, there's more risks associated. It's a much higher, um, performance application, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, spine had, there's a lot of good reasons why spine, um, is a perfect fit for, for additive manufacturing. Um, one, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the size of the part works out great. You can make, you know, close to a hundred of them overnight in a single laser. Um, you know, some of those first generation printers, so the economics and the throughput make a lot of sense for spine, right? Um, where at tabular cups, you can print 10 or 15 of those, um, in a day or two, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Ryan Kircher (11:38):

You know, the economics aren't nearly as good. Um, and then, um, also, you know, when you're talking about like ace spine implants, uh, the actual product portfolio for, you know, like an a-list, um, spinal fusion cage might actually have upwards of a hundred or 150 different part numbers, right? Those things incrementally change in, um, in their footprint. So they're, they're width and their, their length, but also their height. And then sometimes there's some, some angulation to 'em too. So very quickly you can blow up to a huge number of parts that you need, um, just to support, you know, theoretically one, um, type of product. So, um, the ability of additive to, you know, make this size one day this size another, and all that not have to deal with like, um, turner, you know, flipping CNC mills and setting them up for a different part number and all that stuff, or tooling and all that kind of thing.

Ryan Kircher (12:27):

Stuff really makes additive lucrative as well. Um, and then the third thing is that when you really kind of look at, like, the design of implants, um, in the design space that you have, like, um, room to do interesting things with, um, you know, hip cups, you can't really do anything interesting with them, right? Like, you have this little poor structure that you can kind of optimize or whatever, but in spine, you have this area that needs to, you know, ideally, um, you know, withstand some compression load, but then encourage bone to go through it and stuff like that. So the design space and the, the designs that people, um, have come up with to fill that space for a spinal implant of, you know, there's just endless possibilities. So I think that's another big reason why, you know, spine will continue to, to grow and, and will be an interesting space for additive is because, you know, you have this volume and you can basically fill it with anything. Um, you know, and it's, it's kind of unique compared to, to other, you know, orthopedic and large joint applications where you're kind of limited in what you can actually do.

Gaurav Lalwani (13:29):

Yeah. Now, now in addition to spine, I mean, do you see, uh, you know, other, other areas, uh, come up and really adopt additive as well, you know, you know, like cranium, a facial or, or, or any other sort of, uh, use case for additive that is being developed and you see a good potential for, for those cases in the future?

Ryan Kircher (13:54):

Well, I mean, CMS has kind of always been one of the, um, one of the bigger users of additive, um, for a lot of reasons. Um, but, you know, guiding polymers, um, things like that. But also you're seeing people start using metal additive in the cranial space as well. Um, more predominantly, you know, as, as a, it used to be more of like a custom or, uh, exception device or something like that for somebody who, who had a pretty, um, needed some pretty, um, significant, um, al you know, like a custom made plate or something like that. But, um, it's starting to become, hey, you know, we're gonna offer this as an off the shelf kind of patient matched implant. You're starting to see that a lot more, and it makes sense cause that's in the cranial spatial area because, um, you know, it's, people want to, it's

Gaurav Lalwani (14:40):


Ryan Kircher (14:41):

Specific, their appearance to change, right? So, so, you know, having things that conform to a people's anatomy is much more important. Um, areas that I think we'll see, like off the shelf stuff, um, mm-hmm. <affirmative> kind of increase over the next couple years are things like extremities, um, shoulders, ankles, hands, foot, those types of areas, right? Uh, where, where you can make nice intricate parts and make hundreds of them overnight, you know, that the economics make sense. Um, and as additives gotten better over the years, their ability to make, um, finer more, you know, more precise parts has gotten better. So those are the applications that I see, um, increased volumes over the next couple years. I, I still think that like large joint, like, you know, hip cups were one of the first things they hit the market from additive, but they've kind of stalled out.

Ryan Kircher (15:27):

And one of the reasons isn't because you can't make enough of them economically. Um, you can go do the math, but you need like hundreds of, um, laser based powder that fusion systems, um, to make the quantities of parts that a large orthopedic company needs for, for like hip cups or, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, knees or something like that, right? So yeah, right now, laser powdered fusion, it's still somewhat limited in its ability to, to make those at the scale that we need. So, um, I think maybe we're gonna see some other additive processes, um, that can be more competitive, um, with, you know, machining and stuff for those types of things. But right now it's, it's hard to think about laser effusion growing in those areas too much.

Brent Marini (16:14):

Hey, hey Ryan, this is, so you've mentioned economics a couple different times here, and I was, I was planning to touch on that. So what's the biggest limiting factor with either technology or inputs or processes that that's holding back certain additive applications from being adopted? From an economics perspective,

Ryan Kircher (16:38):

Uh, the cost of the equipment is, you know, you look at what, what, what the, what the cost of, um, you know, a delivered vinyl cage will use. Um, that was, you know, made with additive. Um, probably 30 or 40% of that is, is the cost of the depreciation of the additive system still, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> about half of it's associated with additive. Um, and then half of it's associated with all the other processes that happen. Um, of the half that's additive, the majority of that is, um, is the depreciation of the system, right? They're expensive. Most of these things cost anywhere between, um, at the very low end, you're maybe looking at like $700,000 at the high end, depending on how many lasers it has and all that stuff. You know, there's systems out there now that cost multiple millions of dollars. So that's right now the most expensive part still, right?

Brent Marini (17:30):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but you're seeing maybe some alternate outside of laser possibly changing the landscape like a A D E D or, um, you know, freeform jet.

Ryan Kircher (17:41):

I think binder jet is a very effective option. Yeah. Right. Like the throughput on a binder set, binder jet system, um, is you, you know, 10 x or more of what you can get out of a laser based system, um, for like the same capital equipment costs the same footprints in your, you know, facility. Not necessarily, cuz you, you probably need, um, some furnaces and stuff like that, but yeah. You, like, you could probably have a cell with like four or five binder jet printers and that would make enough alar cups for the largest orthopedic company out there. Right? Uh, but there's a lot of work that has to happen before binder jets, in my opinion, ready for, right. Um, making those types of applications, I mean, really interesting things about like, uh, you know, multiple, multiple lasers or, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> lasers splitting and things like that that have, you know, found ways of, of making f tabular cups, you know, in the basic powdered fusion system quite a bit faster too. But, um, yeah, if I, if I was a Betty man, I'd bet on finder jet being a, a pretty good option in five or 10 years.

Gaurav Lalwani (18:47):

In five or 10 years. So you think that's the amount of time we need to figure out all the issues with binder and, you know, all of that complexity around, around binder jetting.

Ryan Kircher (18:58):

Okay. I, I think the biggest interesting, the biggest complication I see right now is powder handling and safety, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, to make that economics work and everything, uh, you gotta use really, really, you know, relatively fine, um, MIM powders that, you know, are mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, 10, 20 times cheaper than the powders we're using in the, in the powdered fusion systems. But they're really fine and I don't wanna be the right now. Yeah. You know, people are essentially de binding, um, parts or, you know, deep powdering the bind jet parts by hand mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and sort of glove box or something. I would wanna be that guy doing that right now, <laugh>

Gaurav Lalwani (19:36):

<laugh>. Right. Especially when you try to scale it up. Right. That becomes a big challenge.

Ryan Kircher (19:40):

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's gonna be one of the bigger challenges. Um, and then they're still struggling to kind of dial the chemical composition requirements and all that stuff correctly mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but what they have been able to do, and I've seen some really nice parts are, are make parts with, you know, pretty nice intricate, um, randomized lats and stuff, right. You know mm-hmm. <affirmative> pretty much the same that you get out of the powdered fusion system. So I think the ability to make the part is, is, is there, they got some stuff to work on on the metal orgy, um, some stuff to work on on just the logistics and powder handling mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but then you gotta go through all the testing and stuff like that with, um, you know, to prove to be FDA or making good parts. And that takes, you know, I can't see it taking any less than the two or three years it took us to do it with, um, yeah. The powder bed fusion stuff, so,

Gaurav Lalwani (20:28):

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Brent Marini (20:34):

Yeah. So I, I think it's interesting to have somebody that's been involved in titanium for as long as you have. Um, typically we see folks come from different industries and different material systems. So I mean, are there any innovations in that alloy system that, um, would excite you or that, you know, would bring value to the

Ryan Kircher (20:54):

Industry? Um, well, I mean, people use titanium whenever they can, um, in orthopedic industries or, you know, in orthopedic implants. Cause you know, that's a lot of good properties that work well, um, for an implant, right? It's, it tates really quickly, so it's really biocompatible, um, you know, bone likes to grow in and through it, um, you know, has a good, um, mod so, you know, it, it, it can kind of flex and elastically to form, which helps bone grow in and through it. Um, but what it does is, what it's really bad at is in where, right? So it's not a good allway if it for any articulating joint or something like that. People have tried coding it in the past and, and stuff like that. But, you know, with relative, um, limited success and stuff like that, I think, um, a huge breakthrough would be some sort of, um, like a metal, um, composite matrix where you're putting some sort of inner metallic or something like that mixed in with, um, you know, titanium, commercially pure titanium or ti six floor, um, to create a, um, essentially like a wear resistant titanium. I think that would, um, <affirmative>, um, be a huge breakthrough, right? Then you can make things like knees and stuff out of, out of titanium potentially. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Kircher (22:14):

Yeah. Very cool. Right?

Gaurav Lalwani (22:15):

I mean that, that would really need

Ryan Kircher (22:17):

A lot of stuff. Still trying to just make the stuff we've made before, you know, <laugh>, let's make titanium like four that's the same as rot and bar, and nobody's really tried to really push the envelope and like, Hey, what can we, how can we take advantage of additive to make better materials? Right? Everyone's still focusing mostly on like the design <laugh>.

Gaurav Lalwani (22:36):

Yep, yep. Yeah, we are using the same materials and we are tweaking the designs. Uh, but I'm sure there is a lot of room for innovation on the materials aspect of, uh, of the landscape. I

Ryan Kircher (22:48):

Mean, there, there are people doing that type of stuff, right? Mostly in like aluminums and stuff like that, but they're doing it in aluminums to try to achieve the properties of other conventional aluminum, right. <laugh>. But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, it'll, it'll eventually come around. It's, um, yeah, it'll be really exciting when it does, when start making articulating joints and stuff out of titanium.

Gaurav Lalwani (23:11):

So, so Ryan, give a gimme a a a scale, a perspective of scale here, right? So we are talking about additive, we are talking about, you know, different kinds of implants being printed out of additive, uh, actually being used out in the clinic, right? Uh, how big is this industry? I mean, how many implants do you, in your approximate estimation is, are actually being used out there in the clinic?

Ryan Kircher (23:39):

Uh, o that's a really hard thing to estimate. Let me, let me think about it. Say

Gaurav Lalwani (23:44):

A million implants, 2 million, 10 million. I

Ryan Kircher (23:46):

Say there's hundreds of thousands of implants being made every month, right?

Gaurav Lalwani (23:53):


Ryan Kircher (23:54):

So you do the math. I mean, millions of millions of implants are being, um, put out into the industry every, every year right now in titanium, right? Yeah. Um, it's probably still less than 10% of the, of the implants that are being made go

Gaurav Lalwani (24:10):


Ryan Kircher (24:11):

The spine. Might be the spine might be the exception, but even like acid tabular cups, even though they've been around for, you know, 16, 17 years or something, they're still a very small portion of the actual cups that are being implanted.

Gaurav Lalwani (24:24):


Ryan Kircher (24:25):

Interesting. I think the potential, the potential is big, right? I could imagine eventually most, um, any sort of implant that has some sort of bone mating surface, um, being made additively.

Gaurav Lalwani (24:39):


Ryan Kircher (24:40):

I don't see why not as long as the economics can, you know, become competitive with conventional manufacturing.

Gaurav Lalwani (24:46):

Brent, any questions from our side?

Brent Marini (24:48):

Yeah, just Ryan, what, what's on, what's next on the horizon for rms? What's next on the horizon for you, um, as you guys continue your,

Ryan Kircher (24:57):

Your journey? Yeah, it's a good question. Um, I mean, I, for me on the horizon is, you know, more work with rms. Um, it's, um, I've, you know, I've worked a handful of different places, uh, over the years, um, and I've never felt as comfortable as I do at rms. Um, it's mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I love working there. We, it's, um, just kind of the perfect fit from a cultural standpoint and things for me. Um, and we're doing a lot of cool things, right? It's, and it's a little bit of a different place than a lot of other places I've worked because they've been making medical implants, um, you know, for, for 30 some years or something. Um, and have only been doing additive for about six years. So they have a really strong, you know, culture surrounding the quality and all that other stuff that it takes to actually make a medical implant.

Ryan Kircher (25:44):

Um, and they're learning and developing their additive program instead of, you know, kind of doing it the other way around. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is where a lot of my experience has been, where, hey, we're, you know, we consider ourselves pretty good at additive and let's try to figure out all this other stuff, which can be, in my opinion, a lot more challenging than, than figuring out how to do additive. So, um, I really like working at RMS from that standpoint. Know we have experts in, in milling and cnc, cnc, um, machining, um, experts in chemical processes like ation cleaning, all those other things you gotta do to an implant before you can, um, you know, actually sell it. So it's been a really good learning experience for me, learning all that stuff from all those other people. Um, as far as additive goes, you know, we're keeping our eye on a lot of additional processes right now.

Ryan Kircher (26:32):

Um, you know, we are kind of, um, we have, you know, in the past been laser focused on, no pun intended, I guess, um, on, uh, powder, you know, laser powdered fusion, um, of titanium outway, right? So we have currently 32 systems that, um, are running, making, um, you know, implantable titanium medical devices every day. Um, so one of my, one of my main goals, um, in joining RMS is to help us kind of branch out, right? So, um, we are currently developing a couple different stainless steels, um, 17 four, um, which is, um, gonna be primarily used for instrumentation and stuff like that. And then, um, I don't need to tell you guys, but we're also working on, um, developing the bio 1 0 8 material, which is a, um, a centrally cobalt and nickel free, um, stainless steel that has both instrumentation and potential, um, implant, um, applications.

Ryan Kircher (27:31):

Um, and one of the really, I, I see that as being a really important allway in developing for the future because, um, in the eu, um, they've really kind of cracked down on the use of, of steels that contain, um, cobalts in them. So, um, I see that as a, um, a really big area for growth in the future. Um, we're also working with, um, our machine supplier, which is 3D systems on some of their newer technologies, um, that are, you know, gonna help us, um, make parts, um, you know, faster and more cost effective in the future. Um, so, you know, validating those systems, um, has and is continuing to be a main focus of ours as well. Um, just so we can stay, um, competitive in the industry. Um, I, I spend a lot of my time in standardization <laugh> as well. Um, to me that's, um, as a contract manufacturer, that's a very, very, um, important thing for us cuz we're kind of, we're kind of stuck in the middle between, um, customers expectations and their requirements, the FDA's requirements on what we can get from our suppliers and, and all that stuff.

Ryan Kircher (28:37):

So, um, you know, standardization is extremely important for us cuz it gets really cost prohibitive if we have to run essentially, you know, 20 different processes to make, um, essentially the same type of product, um, if each customer has different requirements or specifications or, or little things like that. So I've been working a lot on advocating, um, standardization and working with ASTM and stuff like that so that we can get some, um, you know, useful industry accepted standards out there.

Brent Marini (29:11):

Yeah. Yeah. Well that, that, that's all exciting stuff and again, I appreciate the time joining us today and talking about your journey and what you see in the industry.

OUTRO (29:22):

Thanks very much to Ryan Kircher for joining us on PowderHeads and speaking a bit about himself and the work he's doing at RMS Company. If you have questions or comments about what we discussed in this podcast at PowderHeads, send them to powderheads@carpenteradditive.com  or visit our podcast page at www.carpenteradditive.com/powderheads. We continue to build an archive of all of our interviews there, as well as additional material that provides insight and perspective on modern day additive manufacturing. PowderHeads is managed by Carpenter Additive and its parent company Carpenter Technology, a global leader in specialty alloys for over 130 years. Our goal is to help customers solve their most challenging material and process problems. Learn more at www.carpentertechnology.com again for listening and keep building.



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