PowderHeads: Episode 20

Simplifying Additive Manufacturing with Ian Brooks

Carpenter Additive's General Manager, Nick Weeks, sits down with Ian Brooks, Technical Director of Additure. Additure is here to create a world in which additive manufacturing is easily understood and regularly adopted. 

You can read the transcript or listen to the full episode below. 



Full Transcript

Intro (00:10):

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of PowderHeads, a Carpenter Additive podcast. With each episode of PowderHeads we bring you the minds of industry experts and delve in to topics that are defining how additive manufacturing is making an impact on our world. Today, we're hopping across the pond to the UK where, Nick Weeks, General Manager at Carpenter Additive in Liverpool, sits down with Ian Brooks, Technical Director of Additure. A company that describes themselves as on a mission to simplify additive manufacturing. Today you get to hear about it directly from them. Thanks for listening and enjoy the conversation.

Nick Weeks (00:48):

Welcome in to, uh, PowderHeads my name's, um, Nick Weeks and really wanting to get started by, um, you telling us a little bit more about your yourself and, and the company that you

Ian Brooks (00:58):

Represent. Absolutely. Thanks, Nick. Thanks for having me this morning as well. Um, so Brooks from ATK, um, attitude's not been long on the block now, so probably three months, uh, you know, being established and, um, was, was really the brainchild of, uh, the NV of, of Kingsbury machine tools. So, um, have the foresight to recognize that, um, the adoption of additive wasn't accelerating at the pace that that's been predicted. Um, and, and certainly in some parts of the UK at least has become quite stagnant. So, um, really there was, there was two, um, competing ideas that one, one was to see the market with machines and support them with people which obviously has made problem with scale, or it was to set up a central facility, um, that could act as almost a hub for, you know, am technology and, and really act as a springboard to get the technology out there.

Ian Brooks (01:58):

So, um, you know, luckily for me, I was in, in the, the right place at the right time or, or, or the wrong place at the wrong time. We'll see how that goes. But, um, you know, I was in the right place at the right time and, and we as a, as a group opt option for the second, uh, second option. So yeah, attitudes in the north of the UK for the, for the us listeners it's in between Manchester and Liverpool. So, you know, right in the hotbed of, uh, soccer rivalry there. Sure. Ben from carpenter will, uh, we, we know what side he leans to, but, um, at least

Nick Weeks (02:30):

We talk about that the better at

Ian Brooks (02:32):

The moment.

Nick Weeks (02:33):

<laugh> yeah, no, tell us a bit more about, I guess, setting up a new, uh, a new, uh, sort of, or setting up attitude only three months in there must be a lot of interesting challenges is just setting up this new business. Yeah.

Ian Brooks (02:45):

I, I think the, um, the, the, the key for us is to, is to make it, um, production ready. The majority of what we've done so far has been quite boring. So what your systems, what are your procedures? Yeah. Who do you buy off? How do you buy, you know, these things, these challenges that, um, actually, without having that grounding, it doesn't really matter when people come in for parts because you, you, you can't move quickly. You can't react to that. And, you know, we're, we're in it for the long, the long term. And we recognize that, that the market for Melay and parts of technologies that we have, that we'll go into is, is not one offs, it's long term business relationships with primarily manufacturing, OEMs. So all these systems, you know, they have to be in place right from the start. So, um, or, um, challenges so far have, have been relayed to administration. Shall we say in that,

Nick Weeks (03:43):

You know, I can imagine that, but you, um, you've got, um, your machine up and running. Yeah.

Ian Brooks (03:49):

We, we have an SM 500, um, from SM solutions, quad laser, all 700 Watts. Um, we, this week had the commissioning of a Herley C 400. Okay. Which is five axis, CNC, mill, um, and that's primarily to support the, the one activity and the one activity. Our, our principal partner there is GE for tech, um, headquarted in Berlin that arrives on Wednesday this week. Okay. And to support the, the SM 500 will also have a, a deep powdering solution from, so Yucon okay. Um, which will arrive early June.

Nick Weeks (04:26):

Brilliant. Do you wanna tell us a bit more about GE for tech and the, the DD, um, side of things? I think not all of our listeners will know, uh, will know about them.

Ian Brooks (04:34):

Yeah, of course. It's um, so my am background is, is laser pound bed heavy. Um, you know, I've been involved in it for 10 to 12 years now. Um, so DD has been quite new to me over the last few years, but, um, I think if I was doing a very simple differentiator between certainly one and layers of powder bed with layers of powder bed, you need to put the engineering effort up front initially in the part that there has to be a benefit in the part for it to pay off. Whereas with one, the, the sell is far easier in that you, you don't and really shouldn't do any modification to your design. It's a, like for like part, um, with some subtle tweaks, maybe to geometry, to, to, to allow for process specifics. But, um, it's a, because of that, it's a far easy to sell the business cases there.

Ian Brooks (05:33):

Again, if I was, if I was simplifying it, your one targets would be reduced inventory and reduced lead time. Mm-hmm <affirmative> as you dig into it, it, it is a little bit more nuanced than that, but the they're the real targets really where you, where you're suffering headaches with, you know, parts on shelf or, or waiting for parts, really. So, um, a, a very different pitch to laser powder bed, some similarities in, in the process, you know, you you're heating and cooling stuff, you know, pretty fast, not as fast as lays a powder bed, but it's, it's going quick. So, you know, the obvious residual stress distortion, um, you know, it's welding, right. So typical welding defects you'll encounter, but, um, we' got some good partnerships there with, with GE, for tech firstly, and material suppliers. So, um, we're, we're, we're really confident with, with one, we're getting a lot of interest even in this, you know, these, these early days, these early days.

Nick Weeks (06:27):

Yeah. Yeah. Was it that the GE for tech solution offers that maybe some of the other, uh, DED solutions don't offer?

Ian Brooks (06:34):

I think the, um, the, the main differentiator from a GE tech perspective is, um, it's not a robot arm, excuse me. So a lot of the solutions that you see out there are robot arm based, probably people have put them together themselves, you know, so they've engineered solution or integrated solutions themselves, um, GE for techs put together, it's, it's, it's built by machine tool builders with the Providence in machine tools. Um, it's running a Siemens eight 40 D control. So, you know, industrially accepted control system, it's driven out of Siemens XX, you know, entirely with the bolt hunt. So I would say that the, the system and the ancillaries around that, including the software are class leading with regard industrial readiness. Um, the process is the same, whether it's a robot melting it or a Cartesian axis. So the intrinsic problems with the process, yes. They carry over, but from in a, in a box and a software solution, it's it's industrially ready and acknowledged.

Nick Weeks (07:39):

Yeah. Okay. No, that makes sense. That's yeah. Really interesting here. How did, um, I guess you, you expanded a little bit about, add your, add your part of the, the Kingsbury group. How did Kingsbury, um, get into additive

Ian Brooks (07:53):

Manufacturing? Okay. Well, I, I'm trying not to do my cell deservice and say too much about the history of Kingsbury because, um, you know, I've not been in involved in it and I don't know it intimately yet, but, um, they have a long history in machine tools, predominantly high end, uh, German machine tools. I think this dates back to, you know, the mid fifties, I think it was 1956 when, um, Kingsbury onboarded index, you know, as a, as, as a distributor and a reseller. Um, and then since Stan it's grown and grown and the Providence and pedigree, machinings really second to none in the UK, it's, you know, it's really quite phenomenal, um, later sort of maybe mid to late 2010s. They onboarded some am solutions, cuz they recognize that's another string to the bot, you know, to support the milling turning and, and, and grinding systems that you, you know, we already promote and, and support. So, um, that was, that was really, that was the catalyst really was onboarding the, the AI principles in SM solutions and GE for tech.

Nick Weeks (09:02):

Okay. Yeah. Brilliant. That's really good to hear. Yeah. What, what about your, your route into additive manufacturing in, how did you get into it? 10, 12 years ago

Ian Brooks (09:11):

We saw this sounds a bit cliche, but, um, it's true. So 16 starting an apprenticeship as a, as a machinist, um, you know, did the initial training and then I was in the tour room and you know, all, all blocks were coming up to me with cigarette packet drawings and sent, you know, make this so right. So made all that. And my background's always been in, in, in making things started off a manual layers, went to, you know, CNC mills and lads and programming and, and, and such. And, um, I was actually, uh, working on a, on a research project, a machining research project and, and some guy came up to me, said kind of stick this FDM, head on you on your three axis mill. I said, well, you can't, but like, why would you, you know, this smell's pretty good. He's pretty robust.

Ian Brooks (10:03):

It cuts metal fast, you know, listen to it, watch it. Um, and, and, and that was, that was really when, you know, my, my first interaction with am, it was just, it was just polymer FDM. Right. And yeah, you know, the, the, the, the methodology though was not to stick it on a desktop, but, but was to put it on a three axis mill. Um, so as I explored that a little bit, the similarities between machining and, and that were, were quite clear to me, and it might sound a bit depth, but the parameters cross over the analogous feed rate, scan speed, you know, layer of power, spindle, speed, you know, it all carried over for me. So I was, um, I was looking around as you do. And at the time the Ren shore, uh, the acquisition of, of MTT by Ren shore just taken place.

Ian Brooks (10:52):

So they were looking to, they were looking to ramp up. Um, so I applied for that job and, and, and, and that was it really, I was straight in there on the laser powder bedside, um, very small team at the time we grew rapidly both in people and, and customer base. Um, and it, and it was a crazy time, you know, you, uh, no doubt Ben tells you some stories, but it was a crazy time trying to service all the inquiries that were coming in with yeah. You know, a new technology embedded in a new business and supporting the activities globally as well. You know, it was, uh, it was really good baptism of fire, I think for, for laser of powder a bit, but, you know, I loved every minute of it and, you know, um, some frustrations, but, you know, still keep coming back, you know, it's addictive manufacturing, isn't it? Not just, uh, not just additive. Yeah. So

Nick Weeks (11:40):

You, you are one of the, uh, the many people who've come out of the, uh, MTT academy.

Ian Brooks (11:45):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's quite a few. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think everybody else is doing quite a bit better than me though. So it says, uh, says a little bit, but yeah, yeah,

Nick Weeks (11:53):

No. And also a convert from subtractive machining into additive manufacturing with your, your experience in a, in the tool shop.

Ian Brooks (12:01):

Yeah, absolutely. And I never, um, you know, I hear this still, believe it or not that, you know, I AM's gonna replace machining. And I mean, it's, it's so far off being the case. It's not funny, you know, I think that the complimentary at best is, is, is where it will sit. You know, it will find its place. It hasn't found it yet, you know, it will find its place and, you know, it'll settle there and it'll, it'll grow. And it's a, it is a really cool technology and it's a, it is a really useful tool if you want to do things a certain way, but, um, you know, look at machining, you know, you go down there, you see the numbers and machines that are out there, you see the knowledge that is out there, you see what it can do, you know, we, we, we're not nibbling away at that at all. So

Nick Weeks (12:43):

Yeah, no, I can, I can appreciate that. There's, um, there's probably other myths in the industry that we could, uh, we, we could bust in this, um, in this podcast, how long have we got,

Ian Brooks (12:55):

How long have we got? Yeah, <laugh>

Nick Weeks (12:59):

One thing we, uh, we, we speak about a lot is the, uh, the application, um, and finding the right application for, um, what, what you're trying to do using laser powder bed or using DD what's the right application. What, what, have you got any examples or any, uh, anything to sort of share this with regards to sort of picking the right application?

Ian Brooks (13:20):

Well, the, the stock answer is, um, oh, I can't really talk about that one, but I'm not gonna do that. Cause you know, everybody gets away with that. Um, there there's been quite a few, you know, applications at the time. And, and I suppose for me, my old boss always used to say, we, we need to make additive manufacturing, boring, you know, really quite understanding at the time, but I get it now. And I think the best application that, that I I have was a, was an F1 part. You know, it, it wasn't too sexy. It was an exhaust part. It was a super Nicky in canal, 6, 2, 5. Um, it was thin wall 0.8 of a mill primarily. And then there was some, some attachment features at the bottom. Um, so that presents some challenges. But I think the reason why I always go back to that is the, the, the part itself wasn't too cool or sexy, or, you know, you, you surely off on, um, on LinkedIn, it wouldn't get too many hits, but the, the background to that was the qualification of it on a machine that would, that is now obsolete.

Ian Brooks (14:30):

And even at the time would've been seen as a, um, not very modern. So it didn't have all the bells and whistles of the modern day systems. And, you know, with a lot of engineering support, we were able to qualify two machines there to make race parts for two years, you know, throughout on, on those two, like I said, legacy machines. So very simple part. Um, some of the challenges there around Tim wall structures, subsurface, prostate distortion, you know, they, they took weeks and weeks to crack, but when we cracked it and we locked it down much like you would do any production process, it just kept spitting out parts. Right. So just real proof for me. And this is why I like it so much is that it is a good tool when you do it in the right way and, and apply a manufacturing methodology to it. It, it can do exactly what you want it to do, you know, in a routine, uh, you know, in a routine where

Nick Weeks (15:25):

Really interesting what you said there sort of two things I picked up on and one is about being process driven. And the way you phrased that at the beginning was, um, making, making additive manufacturing boring. And I think that's a really important part of it. A lot of its get forgotten that are doing the basics and doing the basics right. Basics in the, uh, the upfront process amount of time you put in upfront will have a direct impact onto how easy the road of production is in the future. So, um, yeah, really interesting. If you say that any particular areas that, that are absolutely key to focus on in your opinion,

Ian Brooks (16:03):

Um, there's a few, um, I've gotta mention the powder, sat this room for you guys, you know, and, and it's so important. It's a feed stock and, um, you know, we have to be able to reuse it. We have to know, um, what the condition of supply is. We, we have to get around from, um, you know, supplying it in, in, you know, plastic containers and wasting that we, we need to be able to monitor that, manage that better. Um, but the, the important things for me, just the very, very simple things, I think because the technology is born out of rapid prototyping, the, the mindset is, um, and this, this phrase used to really frustrate me. And if, if, if one person was listening in particular, he laugh at this, but just throw it on was the phrase I used to hear and what people meant by that was take the cat, slice it in, in magic.

Ian Brooks (17:04):

Some then drop it now, but right. Everybody knows that, slice it and throw the build file down at the machine and just play it. And that really used to frustrate me, because if you're saying that and doing that, you're removing your brain. You're not even thinking about it. You are literally just taking apart. I keep a piece of cat. You don't know the quality of requirements, end use requirements. You have no information. And you're actually saying, I don't care. I'm just gonna slice it in magics and throw it on the machine. Then in the morning, I'm gonna come in and see what I get eight, eight times out of 10, you'll get, you'll get a failure. The powder devils have been in, and they've, they've messed up your build. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you, the most important thing for me is to not do that and think of it like a manufacturing tool. And if you get a, if you get CAD, it needs to have supporting, you know, dimensional, drawing. It needs to have a material spec, cuz this isn't a prototype technology, laser powder bed, it's an end use technology. And those parts that we're making as a fit form function that it has to satisfy. So just think about it as a manufacturing engineer and all the other things around that. It, it, it just works then.

Nick Weeks (18:10):

And I think, um, you've probably learned a lot from your, um, your subtracted manufacturing days as well, where people didn't turn up and say, hi, can you make this part? Yeah. And then your answer was yet, or just throw it on the machine. It doesn't work like that. You have to think of a tool in, you gotta look at, if someone's gotta write the G code, you've gotta work out what tool you're gonna use. You need to know what your tolerances are. Yeah. And it's absolutely, you're applying the same logic just to the process parameters that are relevant to, to additive manufacturing.

Ian Brooks (18:44):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Weeks (18:46):

No, that's really good to hear. I think we focus, um, a lot on the, the feed stock side of things, the control of the feed stock, but that's only one element of the, the process control that that's required.

Ian Brooks (18:59):


Nick Weeks (19:01):

What, um, uh, where else do you need to go from a, uh, I wanna talk a little bit about design for relative manufacturing and the important side of that. Yeah. Can you, can you give us some, uh, some examples around why that's been important?

Ian Brooks (19:14):

Yeah, I, I would. I, um, you know, so I'm, I'm not a designer, um, and, and will never profess to be, um, the important thing for, I think it can be a little bit confusing with a, with a DFA, um, message in additive that there's really, there's really two reasons you, you do it. The first one is in order for it to build up. So you're trying to all become some process phenomenon that are gonna happen. So the, the, the general one would be, make everything 45 degrees. So that's one, but I think that's a really small part of it. I think the largest part of it by far the most important is DFA to add value to the product in order to make it viable, to make bys of part of the bed means because, you know, let's be quite honest, it's, it's very slow on therefore very expensive. You know, you're paying a massive hour of rate for the machine time, so,

Nick Weeks (20:11):

And you've gotta put Tom and effort in up front. So that absolutely the cost to switch from whatever process you're making today to a new process is, is significant as

Ian Brooks (20:19):

Well. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it's, um, the, the DFA message is if you are just making a part buildable, you should really be questioning whether that's a part, the laser powder bed, because that suggests to me in that there was a different manufacturing technology that was thought about to make that part during the concept stages of the design. So that's, that's bad, really. You want to be designing from the ground up. And, um, you know, the examples from, from mold now in the us going back years are, you know, still right up there for me and the, you know, the obvious GE examples as well. And, you know, some of the, um, now you're starting to see some of the, some of the top software tool sets mature to the point where we have confidence in them from a topological optimization point of view. So some of these examples now, um, you know, from an automotive, albeit high end from an automotive perspective are really quite good as well. But, um, yeah, the, the, the death of DFA is, is, uh, a long way off for me. And, and, and never should be the case. We absolutely need it to add value to the product to make it viable, to build via laser pad bed.

Nick Weeks (21:34):

Okay. Yep. No, I think, um, very much understand and appreciate that. And the, the, the focus of designing for your manufacturing process is a, is one of the principles of good solid manufacturing and, uh, engineering and lean manufacturing. And it doesn't preclude it. If you move to additive manufacturing, you still have to do it just as you have to do, um, design for, for manufacturing when you're, you're working on a subtractive process or yeah, yeah. Assembly process. So, um, yeah, really, really appreciate your, your, your comments around that. Okay. Um, it'd be great if you could talk to us maybe a little bit about, um, where, where do you see the industry moving? I think we talk about additive manufacturing, but also maybe a little bit more specifically about the laser powdered industry, which is where you've spent. Yeah. A lot of your, your, your, your time in your career.

Ian Brooks (22:25):

Um, it, it's a, it's an interesting landscape and has been for a number of years now, the, um, you know, I was only thinking this morning on the way in, I mean, you think if, if GE would've got, you know, the original way, you know, how different it would've been now, you know, rather than the, the concept and the outcome acquisition. So, um, I, I, I think it's safe to say that, that there's a lot of people now in the layers of power bed world. And I talk about that from being embedded in it for a long time. So I feel like I can, um, you know, I'm not gonna rhyme my full players, but the list keeps growing that there's a lot of them and that the it's very hard, although they try to differentiate between what is one and another. Um, if you, if you dumb it down and you, you know, you'd take the machine, um, the machine covers off generally the same scanner, you know, system, the same mirrors, the same lasers, you know, doing the same jobs and there's two a axis moving.

Ian Brooks (23:25):

So there's a lot of, um, you know, there's a lot of acronyms and stuff around that, but for like, for like the, the very, very similar, so it's hard to differentiate there. And also, um, the laser powdered market can only be driven by end use applications. And if they aren't growing at the same rate as the market is, then, you know, again, the, the fair conclusion is there's gonna have to be some consolidation in the next two or three years. So I, I, I would expect that if, you know, if we don't get any traction in the end use applications, and I know it's moving a little bit, but not at the rate, we need it. If we don't get that. And there are people that are only in laser powder bed. So machine OEMs with all their eggs in that basket, you know, they, they've gotta be a little bit worried over the next two or three years, I would say.

Ian Brooks (24:17):

And, um, again, I'm quoting people that I used to work with, but, um, there was one chap in particular that, you know, we were developing laser powder bed machines at the time, and we were supporting them and our mindset was Les powder bed. And he always used to say, you know, I mean, what's gonna happen if somebody just comes in and use ups all this with, with new tech. Yeah. And that's a pretty good point. The, the, the, yeah, I was listening, you know, really interesting to hear James, um, on your previous podcast from Surat. And, you know, if, if, if that comes online, then, you know, it's, it's just swooping in. And like I say, you suring everything and all the good work that lays a part of bed's done. So I expect consolidation in the laser part about market and new technologies to come in that that are different and, and better and worse in different regards. So, um, you know, again, they'll come along and be better at laser part about it, some things and not so much on others. And it's just about finding the, finding the place for these technologies, cuz the, you know, one of Aures many strap lines is, um, simply a manufacturing tool and that's all they are. We, you know, we just have to find the, their area.

Nick Weeks (25:27):

Yeah. I, I think it's a really good point that you've got yeah, different, uh, different ways of looking at the, the, the laser process that people likes to do. And you've got the, you've got the binder jet guys coming from from the other direction. You've got, um, innovations in, uh, blown powder, whether it's DD or cold spray and the, the increased, um, rates of, um, deposition you can get, you can get with them coming in different directions. I think it's all it, it's how all that mixes together and people can make, make the right selection for, uh, the design criteria they've got,

Ian Brooks (26:05):

That's often problem, isn't it, Nick? I think they, um, still, they all get lumped into the one umbrella of a am and it's hard for people to distinguish what is, what, which technology is suited for, for, for which parts materials, applications, and things like that. So, you know, it, it sounds really simple, but as an industry, we, we have to be fixated and an attitude we are fixated on using it for the, for the right things. You know, we're, we're not gonna do things that you shouldn't do with this tool. You know, we we're past that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> we have to focus on, um, you know, what it's good at. Yeah. You know,

Nick Weeks (26:44):

Makes complete sense. Have you got any, um, thoughts or sort of comments on where you see the, the ancillary side of things going? I think, uh, software is absolutely vital to, to, to support, uh, the additive manufacturing industry and there's other parts of this or the ancillary stuff outside of that. Yeah. Any things that you think need to happen in the next five years?

Ian Brooks (27:04):

Point of view? Um, I think the, um, and we've been saying this for a number of years now, but, um, it's, and, and again, sorry, this comes from a laser powder bed perspective, generally the parts, because you, you have to spend a lot of engineering effort front under and add value on them. They're going into high end sectors. These organizations don't want disparate tool sets.

Nick Weeks (27:31):


Ian Brooks (27:31):

Yeah. So it, it, it does all have to be end to end more or less mm-hmm <affirmative> in, in the one software tool set. And again, you're starting to see that and that, that can't happen, you know, fast enough for me to see how we, how we still do that, but allow, um, change to still happen reasonably quick, because some of the, um, you know, the hatching and slicing algorithms for laser powdered are in my view, restrictive, they, they, you know, they, they let you do what, what they want you to do, what they think is useful. Um, but then it precludes you to innovate, you know, in, in, in other ways you might want to do different things in, in different areas of the building. Um, I think some of the stuff that D dry is hoping to do, uh, in the us might, might be a catalyst for change though, and allow users to innovate and things, you know, I heard some really good things about them recently, but I think being able to integrate it into the software tool, but still innovate is really hard. Um, but we need to be able to do that with, with laser part about it's a dynamic technology, and we need to be able to innovate quick

Nick Weeks (28:43):

And platforms like, like the one you just mentioned, giving people that flexibility, but in, in, in, uh, what we're not fully one software platform, but moving towards that, that sort of mindset is, yeah. Certainly, hopefully gonna be, uh, an enabler to that.

Ian Brooks (28:58):

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Weeks (29:01):

One more question to, to, to, to finish, finish things off today and you've um,

Ian Brooks (29:05):

When am I going, when am I coming back next? That's

Nick Weeks (29:08):

It do

Ian Brooks (29:08):

It in the us the next one. Yeah.

Nick Weeks (29:10):

Yeah. That'd be good.

Ian Brooks (29:10):

Wouldn't it? Yeah.

Nick Weeks (29:12):

Um, you we've talked about additive manufacturing. You gotta do. We gotta do the boring stuff. Right. It's difficult. The, the market's got, um, so it's some challenging skill going ahead. What would you say to someone who's thinking about getting into additive manufacturing right now? You we've painted a, a mixed picture there. What, what would be your, um, your feedback to people interest in the industry, but not actually in the industry yet?

Ian Brooks (29:35):

Um, I don't know. I mean, my route was, was, was great. I think because I had that, um, you know, that background initially in conventional manufacturing. Yeah. And I think, um, that's key. I think if you, if you find yourself coming out of an undergrad degree and then, you know, you got a straight 2:00 AM, um, probably missing a trick there, but I, I don't know how, how best to really go about that. I mean, if you, the, the general route has been machine OEM applications into you. Yes. Yeah. And that is still a really good route. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because you're embedded, then you get all the knowledge and, and actually the machine OEMs haven't been great at, at, at sharing that knowledge. They they've tried in different ways, but they've not been great at doing that. So the, the second route back from that is, is a research route. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, you know, I've, I've been on that journey myself as well, but that generally tends to be what people would do. So I would think if you're interested in, in a am in general, it's a machine OEM route, and that's really where you'll pick the knowledge up fairly that it's a research route. And then, and then third down, you want to get yourself out to an end user. Who's really making parts in production, you know? And I think, um, yeah. Yeah.

Nick Weeks (30:57):

I think, I think that's really interesting. I think end users using multiple different technologies to get their, their final product out to market. You learn the, um, the pros and cons of all the different manufacturing processes there, and they're all interconnected in some way.

Ian Brooks (31:11):

Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Weeks (31:12):

Brilliant. Well, yeah. Thank you very much for coming in today in it's been really good to, to catch up. No problem. Thank you very much. We'll we'll leave it there unless you have anything else. Any final

Ian Brooks (31:21):

Thoughts? No, no, no, I'm fine. Thanks very much for having me and, uh, yeah. Good luck for everything in the future. Yeah.

Nick Weeks (31:27):

Brilliant. Thanks very much. I thanks. Thanks for that. Cheers. Cheers.

Outro (31:31):

Thanks very much to Ian Brooks for joining us on PowderHeads, we look forward to seeing how Additure makes good on their mission to simplify the AM industry. If you have questions or comments about what we discussed in this podcast PowderHeads, send them to powderheads@carpenteradditive.com or visit our podcast page at www.carpenteradditive.com/powderheads. We continue to build an archive of all of our interviews there as well as additional material that provides insight and perspective on modern day additive manufacturing. PowderHeads is managed by Carpenter Additive and its parent company Carpenter Technology, a global leader in specialty alloys for over 130 years. Our goal is to help solve their most challenging material process problems. Learn more at CarpenterTechnology.com. Thanks again for listening and keep building!



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